This day could be any of our 'last days'.
There is absolutely no reason to dwell on 'end times'. I was just pointing out to Seeker how far he has bought into non-belief and replaced it with nothing except MAN'S WISDOM.
Most of us have enough trouble living up to our calling: "Deny thyself, Take up thy cross daily and follow me". Luke 9.23.
Rex
Rex B13
JoinedPosts by Rex B13
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38
Why believe Revelation or Last Days?
by Seeker inthose of us who used to be jws, i have a question for you: why would any of us think revelation has anything to say about the 21st century, or that we are in the last days period?.
when we left the jws, we did so because of their false teachings.
we saw through their faulty reasoning about why we are in the last days.
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Rex B13
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For Maximus: I'll ignore everyone else
by Rex B13 inmaximus,.
you seem like a smart fellow but you have jw rationalism imbedded in your brain.
you asked for an explanation and here it is:.
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Rex B13
You asked, I delivered. What's up?
Rex -
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Really Simple question for the fundys
by hippikon inreally simple question for the fundys.
why is god invisible?
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Rex B13
"God, where are you? Why don't you reveal yourself to me?"
The sun was bright that day, blue skies with clouds in the distance. A gentle breeze brushed against the man's cheek and ruffled his hair.
"Where is your love for me, God"
The man's dog licked his hand, wagging it's tail as it gazed at it's master.
"If I only knew you were there for sure I could believe in you. Why are you not visible to me?"
Distant thunder echoed in the distance and the breeze became cooler, bringing relief from the humid day.
"Oh God, please speak to me and tell me what to do."
His Bible rested where it always did, on the coffee table.
It was closed as usual.God walked the earth in the form of a man. He died on the cross that you and I may have eternal life. His offer of grace is free for all who ask with an honest heart.
Rex
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Who Were the NWT Translators?
by AlanF ini just posted this information to a private email list, but i think it will be of interest to people on this board.. the following list of translators of the new world translation is a compilation from a variety of sources:.
frederick w. franz: main translator.
took liberal arts sequence at university of cincinnati; 21 semester hours of classical greek, some latin.
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Rex B13
Re: Who Were the NWT Translators? Jul 20, 2001 7:23:48 PM
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You said:
>Alan F
You list the names of six members of the Bethel family who are rumoured to be the members of the NWT committee. This disagrees with the list of four names stated by Raymond Franz in his COC page 50, 2nd edition, 1992. Whis is the correct list? I put it to you that your sources are unreliable even if they are well meaning, such is merely secondhand opinion or simply rumour.James Penton in his Apocalypse Delayed could not provide any evidence as to the identity of the committee. This is somewhat surprising as he is a competent historian of JW history, lived in somewhat close geographical proximity to the US and Canadian Bethels and no doubt would have had numerous sources and contacts. Yet he only refers to the list given on p. 50 in COC. How can this be?
Under a previous heading on this board 'Accuracy of Bible Translation', I commented that it is somewhat strange that in the likely event that there was archival material of the NWT committee in Bethel that this was mot referred to by Raymond Franz who one would have thought because of his status would have have access to it.
I queried as to why Franz did not provide any ORAL or WRITTEN material that could be used as evidence in a future public forum. In his COC, he gives an excellent account of oral converations, copies of letters and other confidential memos etc. He has a good memory in that he recalls even converations between his colleagues who were supposed members of the NWT committee.In your reply to this matter, you stated that it was because of a "fanatical devotion to secrecy" as an explanation. Surely, you must appreciate that organizations of whatever type possess at various levels, a measure of secrecy. Why even many families have their secrets. Apart from this, the organization is bureaucratic. This means there is much attention to records, archives, memos, correspondence etc. In short, one must logically expect that somewhere in Bethel there is documention in some form that does or may establish the identity of the committee. If in fact no such documentaion exists. then one may assume that NWT committee existed or exists outside of Bethel but not independent of it.
In fact, in your earlier post , you refer to such documentation but you provide no details. It is somewhat amazing with the number of people who have left and are no longer associated with the Society why they have not blown the whistle so to speak. Even Franz did not feel unashamed in revealing the contents of private conversations that would have been an embarrassment for such prominent individuals.
My thoughts:
Well, you exposed Alan's usual style of drawing attention to himself by pretending to be an 'insider' and he has fooled a lot of people!Then you said:
The committe wished that their anonymity be protected even after their death. This means that one of life's greatest secrets will be eternally preseved. This means that for eternity the greatest translation ever devised constitutes a memorial to the Author of the Holy Scriptures, Jehovah God.My thoughts:
Evidently, you have never read the mountainous evidence of the MISTRANSLATION and pathetic bias of the NWT to it's own theology. In contrast, most Bibles are translated using teams of scholars and specialists who are known for their integrity and honesty.
A scholar who is also a 'trinitarian' is just that because he sees the truth of the trinity in scripture. He is not a biased 'trinitarian' when it comes to literal and contextual translating. Those who have no integrity are soon discredited, guys like Greg Stafford and Ralf Furoli are prime examples. Fred Franz much vaunted 'hebrew' knowledge was much bolstered by already translated english Bibles.
Take a look at similiar available literal translations of the era and see where the NWT is almost the same EXCEPT for the verses that it chooses to mistranslate!
Later,
Rex -
38
Why believe Revelation or Last Days?
by Seeker inthose of us who used to be jws, i have a question for you: why would any of us think revelation has anything to say about the 21st century, or that we are in the last days period?.
when we left the jws, we did so because of their false teachings.
we saw through their faulty reasoning about why we are in the last days.
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Rex B13
>ROFL! Get your blinders off! Most of the world has barely heard of Christianity. Within the Christian nations, of course, it is growing, but that's because population is growing, combined with the shifting around of religious allegiances fomented by the evangelical movements. But outside the Christian world, it's business as usual and Christ has nothing to do with it.
You can "ROFL" all you want but it won't change a thing. It's growing EVERYWHERE except Canada and Western Europe, country after country and missionaries are coming to America and Europe more than ever.
This is the last great revival and you are going to be sick of hearing about it before the end of the Church Age.
"Last days"? We ALL face the "last days" each day that we live.Isn't it wonderful the way these threads take off when a dispute gets rolling?
Rex -
38
Why believe Revelation or Last Days?
by Seeker inthose of us who used to be jws, i have a question for you: why would any of us think revelation has anything to say about the 21st century, or that we are in the last days period?.
when we left the jws, we did so because of their false teachings.
we saw through their faulty reasoning about why we are in the last days.
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Rex B13
I said:
quote:
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Take your pick on the humongous disasters that we are ont he edge of. Do I have to name them for you?
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Blah, blah, blah. Every generation thinks the same thing. Just wait till you see the disastrous possibilities of the 22nd century! Boy, will we be in trouble then!
None of the JW 'signs' are correct, it's all hooey and as accurate as their usual lack of context allows. Just to put you in the proper frame of mind, the JWs are totally wrong about so much that it is actually funny. The trinity, the immortal soul, hell for the unsaved (No, not Dante's version), end times, signs of the end times, the Rapture, the Great Trib, Armageddon and the list goes on. Randy Watters is one fellow who has said that the general 'protestant teachings' appear to be the closest Biblically. I believe that Jan has made similiar statements though of course from non-belief.
Did every generation experience the revival of Israel?
Did every generation have several ways to make us extinct?
Did every generation have the original provinces of Rome make moves to become a single entity?
Did every generation have a global economy?
Did you know that the world is in the midst of a huge Christian revival, thus the persecution from other entities has grown?
Have you not seen the moves of pagan religions in establishing alliances?
How far are we from the advent of the anti-Christ and might he be alive even now?
So many of you ex'dubs have houses in the forests, the drought is on, the match is soon to be lit.... And you don't even have 'fire insurance'! Then you ignore the import of Pascals' wager.
The world is sharply divided along so many lines that chaos reigns and once the Holy Spirit's overall influence departs, when the Church is gone, the gates of hell will be opened.The world is going to hell in a handbasket and the attitude of Jim Morrison prevails, "I'm going to get my kicks before this whole shithouse goes up in flames". I can identify with that thought for I was there once upon a time.
Yep, in between my two careers with the 'dubs I had me some fun. You know what? It doesn't compare to the JOY of serving the Lord, not even close.
Later,
Rex -
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Sexual Morality in OT & NT
by AlanF insexual morality in the old testament differs from that in the new testament .
conservative christians like the jehovah's witnesses often claim that, like the new testament, the old testament forbids all sexual relations outside marriage, including relations between unmarried people.
that is not quite true.
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Rex B13
Hey,
Your the same dimbulb dub who thinks she told her 'born again' friends the 'what for' using her WTS trained Bible knowledge (that is a real good one). I nailed you to the wall on that one, didn't I sweetie?
Did ya read my little essay directed at your goofy claims about 'two commands' only? Do you know what the 'Great Commision is'? Have you ever read John 15, Luke 9.23 or Matthew 28, 18-20 in anything besides the NWT?
Cheers,
Rex -
25
Who Were the NWT Translators?
by AlanF ini just posted this information to a private email list, but i think it will be of interest to people on this board.. the following list of translators of the new world translation is a compilation from a variety of sources:.
frederick w. franz: main translator.
took liberal arts sequence at university of cincinnati; 21 semester hours of classical greek, some latin.
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Rex B13
Re: Who Were the NWT Translators? Jul 19, 2001 7:05:05 PM
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>bj:
The observations of various people who worked closely with the translation committee or with documentation produced by it. Some of these folks are not comfortable with making themselves known just yet.AlanF
So you have a private 'revelation'? They would tell a dweeb like you and we get the info because you are so special?
As Tina would say, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
See Ya'
Rex -
38
Why believe Revelation or Last Days?
by Seeker inthose of us who used to be jws, i have a question for you: why would any of us think revelation has anything to say about the 21st century, or that we are in the last days period?.
when we left the jws, we did so because of their false teachings.
we saw through their faulty reasoning about why we are in the last days.
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Rex B13
A little devotional that I wrote recently:
Today our Lord has risen! It seems like a dream come true. Was it really only Friday that we left the foot of the cross that held his lifeless body? We understood so little. We never expected him to die even as he told us that it would happen. He is the messiah! He cannot die! He is setting up his kingdom! Oh Father, all of that ended that day.(NIV Mark 15:34) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
(NIV Luke 23:46-47 46) Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last. The centurion, seeing what had happened, praised God and said, "Surely this was a righteous man."Even the Roman centurion expressed regret over the death of our beloved Rabbi. We cowered and trembled through that cold, dark night and even into two more days and one more night. Huddled in our hiding place we feared the Jews, now that the Son of man was entombed and even guarded. The Jews told them we would try to steal the body. Can you imagine that? How could we ever accomplish the rolling away of the huge stone covering the entrance, much less try to steal the body and for what purpose?
Then this day arrived and Mary Magdalen returned from the tomb with the unbelievable news! He is risen! Our Lord is risen! Our Lord and our God has breathed the Holy Spirit on us. We proclaim the gospel to all who will listen. We understand now and we will do His will. To Yahashua be the glory forever and ever, amen.
Here we are almost two millennia and thousands of miles from that blessed event. Our Lord is even more alive to us though we cannot see Him with our eyes of flesh. We see Him in our hearts and in the hearts of our beloved brethern. We see Him in worship and wherever we gather in His name. May our Lord again enter into time from eternity. May we see you in full glory on that moment that we rise to meet you!(NIV 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 16) For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.
Until that glorious day may we continue to evangelize our fellow man. May we each strive to faithfully carry out the Grand Commision:
(NIV Matthew 28:18-20) Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Now to the pont:
NIV Romans 8:1-9
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.So Seeker,
You sound like a kid whistling his way through a graveyard, muttering to himself, "I don't believe in spooks".
Take your pick on the humongous disasters that we are ont he edge of. Do I have to name them for you? It took a miracle to bring Israel back to Palestine in '48. It's only through the grace of God that we did not start shooting missles at each other in '62, '67 and '73. God really stuck the false prophets on that last one, eh?Now we have the environment, viral warfare and a million man army that could assemble and march to the border of Israel in about sixty days. When that happens, are we gonna nuke 'em or stand by and let 'em go to it? Israel has about fifty warheads that could kill a lot of Arabs and Chinese or Russians or all three.
That Great Trib is gonna' be a rough time for those who are left behind.....
NIV Matthew 24:36-42
36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.ASV Revelation 19:13-17
13 And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure.
15 And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.
16 And he hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written, KINGS OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid heaven, Come and be gathered together unto the great supper of God;NIV Matthew 13:37-42
37 He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.NIV Mark 13:19-27
19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now--and never to be equaled again.
20 If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.
21 At that time if anyone says to you, `Look, here is the Christ !' or, `Look, there he is!' do not believe it.
22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible.
23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.
24 "But in those days, following that distress, "`the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
26 "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.Yep, I hope you enjoy the fireworks!
Cheers,
Rex -
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For Maximus: I'll ignore everyone else
by Rex B13 inmaximus,.
you seem like a smart fellow but you have jw rationalism imbedded in your brain.
you asked for an explanation and here it is:.
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Rex B13
Maximus,
You seem like a smart fellow but you have JW rationalism imbedded in your brain. You asked for an explanation and here it is:
1) You cannot have all of the answers to Biblical theology. Mysteries can and do exist and this is partly where faith comes in. Rationalists think they can reason out every mystery and nuance of scripture. Salvation does not require this at all!
2) God can only answer why He uses different methods on humanity. My speculation is that He is demonstrating to us that we cannot hope to live as His creation by our own means. He has a plan that was set in eternity, before time even existed (predestination).
3) Each dispensation ends in failure and judgement of mankind. Man continuously falls well short of the mark (free will). This is indeed a demonstration of how far we are from God and why we need to accept His free offer of salvation by grace through faith alone.
4) Our Lord, Jesus recognized this dispensational truth when he addressed the syngogue in Luke 14.16-20, closing the scroll of Isaiah 61, 1,2 in mid-sentence, "This day is the scripture fulfilled in your ears". He left out the last clause of 61.2 (and the day of vengeance of our God) because he knew that it would not be fulfilled until His second coming. He made a dispensational distinction right there! There is no break in the text yet history shows that we have a two thousand year dispensation to prove it exists: the Church Age.
Here are the guidelines for interpreting scripture:
1) Truth that belongs to one dispensation period must not be read into another. We must always ascertain where we are in history when reading a portion of the Bible.
2) Truth that belongs to a past dispensation must not be used to interpret the present dispensation. To do so puts us under law, as the various heretical groups do time after time.
3) The reverse of the second rule is also applied.
4) Truth that belongs to the future must not be applied to the present. Example: To put the church into the tribulation period is a misapplication of scripture. Israel is again the focus of God's efforts during that period.
5) Truth that belongs to one part of the future must not be read into another part. Example: The judgement seat of Christ, the judgement of "all the nations" and the judgement of the "White Throne" are all separate judgements.This lack of knowledge (Knowing enough to get in trouble but not enough to figure a way out) is why such groups like the RCC, JWs, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Oneness Pentecostals exist.
Distortions of Biblical truth are exactly what this forum promotes.
Rex